Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/07/2004 09:06 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 303(RES)                                                                                            
     "An Act relating to  the Big Game Commercial Services Board and                                                            
     to   the  regulation   of  big   game  hunting   services   and                                                            
     transportation services;  and providing for an effective date."                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the first  hearing  for this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  explained that the  Senate Rules Committee,  at the                                                            
request of the  Legislative Budget & Audit Committee,  sponsors this                                                            
legislation.  The bill  would re-establish  a Big  Game Guide  Board                                                            
system for  the guiding industry  in a fashion  similar to  one that                                                            
had previously been established.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HENRY  WEBB,  Staff  to  Representative  Ralph  Samuels,  and  Aide,                                                            
Legislative  Budget & Audit Committee  (LB&A) stated that  this bill                                                            
would  reestablish  the  Big  Game  Commercial  Services  Board,  in                                                            
response  to  "oversight  of  the industry"  concerns  raised  in  a                                                            
Division  of Legislative  Audit [copy  on file],  dated October  16,                                                            
2003, that have developed  since the Board was terminated in the mid                                                            
1990s.  The concerns  identified include  the  inability of  various                                                            
State  departments,  including   the  Department  of  Community  and                                                            
Economic  Development,   the  Department  of  Fish   and  Game,  the                                                            
Department  of  Public  Safety,  the  Department   of Environmental                                                             
Conservation,  and the Department  of Natural  Resources as  well as                                                            
various federal agencies  such as the Bureau of Land Management, the                                                            
Forest  Service,  the  Federal  Aviation  Authority  (FAA)  and  the                                                            
Federal  Communication  Commission  (FCC)  to coordinate  with  each                                                            
other. Another  problem identified  in the Audit was a lessening  of                                                            
ethical standards,  as no code of  ethics currently exists  in State                                                            
statute.  Furthermore,  there is  a lack  of detailed  business  and                                                            
operating standards; there  is an inadequate hunter safety standard;                                                            
and  there  is "a  diminished  disciplinary  climate  for  unethical                                                            
conduct." The  Department of Community  and Economic Development  is                                                            
unable to  adequately address  consumer  complaints, and  therefore,                                                            
"their  [the  consumer]  only recourse  is  litigation."  There  are                                                            
currently  no sanctions  for multiple  consumer  complaints or  game                                                            
violations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb  continued  that following  the termination  of the  Board,                                                            
"fines   for   infractions   were   significantly    reduced,"   and                                                            
registration  qualifications   are  only applicable   to  registered                                                            
guides.  While  it  has  been  suggested   that  the  Department  of                                                            
Community and  Economic Development  could address concerns  without                                                            
the  establishment  of a  Board, the  consensus  is  that were  this                                                            
feasible,  the concerns  would not  have elevated  to their  current                                                            
level.  There  is no  ability  to  bring all  the  affected  parties                                                            
together to address solutions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb stated  that the re-establishment of a Board  would provide                                                            
a venue through which problems  facing the hunting industry could be                                                            
addressed, including improving  communication, having expertise with                                                            
which  to oversee  the  industry,  and having  the ability  to  "act                                                            
proactively  rather  than reactively."  A Board  is deemed  to  be a                                                            
necessary  oversight  tool.  This legislation  was  developed  after                                                            
discussions  with various interested  departments. He stressed  that                                                            
the Board would be self-supporting.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  inquired to  the composition  and  appointment  of                                                            
Board members.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb  stated that  the members  of the Board  are identified  in                                                            
Section  3, subsection  (b)  page  two, beginning  on  line four  as                                                            
follows.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     (b) The board consists of seven members as follows:                                                                        
          (1) two members who are current, licensed registered                                                                  
     guide-outfitters;                                                                                                          
          (2) one member who is a licensed transporter;                                                                         
          (3) one member of the Board of Game who is chosen by the                                                              
     Board of Game and who does not hold a guide or transport                                                                   
     license;                                                                                                                   
          (4) two members who represent private landholders                                                                     
     affected   by  guided  hunting  activities  or  transportation                                                             
     services  and  who do  not hold  a  license issued  under  this                                                            
     chapter; and                                                                                                               
          (5) one public member.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Hoffman  observed   there  to  be   a  lack  of   regional                                                            
representation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb responded  that the private landowner member  could provide                                                            
the regional consideration.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson   pointed  out  that   the  Division  of   Occupation                                                            
licensing,  Fiscal Note  #1, specifies the  regional representation                                                             
composition of the Board.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb understood  that the fiscal  note's analysis was  developed                                                            
in an effort to determine expenses.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson voiced that  the representation  specified in  fiscal                                                            
note #1 would not adequately  represent big game hunting activity in                                                            
the State,  specifically  that the  areas west  of Fairbanks  should                                                            
have higher representation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb  could not adequately  respond, as  he was not involved  in                                                            
the development of the Department's fiscal note.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked  for  further information,   specifically  the                                                            
negative  affects that  have  resulted, by  the termination  of  the                                                            
original Board.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb responded  that, while he  was not involved in the  process                                                            
at the time, "there was  a perception that the Board was captured by                                                            
special  interest"  groups. He  deferred  to the  Legislative  Audit                                                            
Division to further answer the question.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PAT  DAVIDSON,  Legislative  Auditor,  Legislative  Audit  Division,                                                            
explained  to  the   Committee  that  one  of  biggest   factors  in                                                            
terminating the Board was  a 1988 Alaska Supreme Court decision, the                                                            
Owsichek  Decision,  which  outlawed Exclusive  Guide  Areas  (EGA),                                                            
which  were established  in  1976  by the  original  Board. At  that                                                            
point, a lack of consensus  as to the direction of the Board, rather                                                            
than  a  particular  action,  seemed to  occur  that  furthered  its                                                            
dissolutionment.  She  noted  that  all  Boards  operate  under  the                                                            
auspice of a termination date.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked for examples of the negative  affects that have                                                            
caused reconsideration of this Board.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  responded that the Audit  found that no Best  Business                                                            
practices have  been established in  Statute or regulations  in this                                                            
regard.  In addition  the  Division  of Occupational  Licensing  was                                                            
unable  to  provide  sufficient  criteria  in which  to  provide  an                                                            
environment in which "hunters  felt economically comfortable." While                                                            
the  Audit  did  conclude  that  some  statutory  changes  would  be                                                            
necessary  to enhance the  industry, it had  not concluded  that the                                                            
establishment of a Board  was essential. However, it should be noted                                                            
that when a  Board exists there is  a more active regulatory  regime                                                            
because it actively  pursues regulation changes and  enhancements in                                                            
order to follow "the direction  of where the industry is going." The                                                            
audit  left the  re-establishment  of  a Board  decision  up to  the                                                            
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked whether  outfitters  and  guides  support  the                                                            
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  responded  that the  focus of  an audit  is to  review                                                            
State agency action. While  the Department of Community and Economic                                                            
Development  does not support the  re-establishment of a  Board, the                                                            
Department of Fish and Game does.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked whether the guide  industry would support  this                                                            
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson stated  that while she was confident  that the industry                                                            
would  support  the  re-establishment  of  a Board,  she  could  not                                                            
officially speak on their behalf.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman asked  whether the  "best business  practices"  are                                                            
represented in this bill.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  responded  that that  the bill addresses  many  of the                                                            
issues raised in the audit.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman,  referencing  language  in Section  9,  subsection                                                            
(C)(ii) on page  eight, lines 16 through 19, questioned  whether the                                                            
language  in that  section promotes  best business  practices  as it                                                            
might be difficult  for an individual, in the military  for example,                                                            
to obtain the required experience.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     (ii) has  at least 10 years'  hunting experience in  the state;                                                            
     military  service outside of the state for not  more than three                                                            
     years  shall be  accepted  as part  of the  required 10  years'                                                            
     hunting experience; and                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC 04 # 75, Side A 10:42 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson deferred  to other entities to answer  the question, as                                                            
the audit does not address that issue.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb  understood that  the language in  question is in  existing                                                            
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked whether this bill would comply  with decision                                                            
of the aforementioned lawsuit.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson understood  that the bill would not establish Exclusive                                                            
Guide Areas. EGA were determined  to be unconstitutional as a result                                                            
of that decision.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman contended,  therefore, that guides would compete for                                                            
the best  hunting areas.  This would  make it  harder to manage  the                                                            
resources in those areas.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked whether this concern is addressed  in Section                                                            
28. Use area registration. on page 17, beginning on line 20.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE REGELIN,  Deputy Commissioner,  Department  of Fish and  Game,                                                            
informed  the  Committee   that  the  Alaska  Professional   Hunters                                                            
Association helped draft  this legislation, requested that the Audit                                                            
be  conducted,   and  "are  in  full  support"  of  its   enactment.                                                            
Continuing,  he stated that  the bill would  not have any effect  on                                                            
the Owsichek decision that outlawed exclusive guide areas.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  understood therefore  that the bill would  continue                                                            
to be in compliance in that regard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Regelin affirmed  that this legislation would  have no affect on                                                            
exclusive guide areas.  EGAs would not be permitted under this bill.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman asked  how a desirable  area's  resources would  be                                                            
protected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Regelin stated  that  this legislation  would  "go  a long  way                                                            
toward" resolving existing  problems. Big Game Guides would continue                                                            
to  have  three areas  in  which  to  hunt and  conflicts  could  be                                                            
addressed.  This legislation  would provide  the Board of Game,  who                                                            
strongly  support this bill,  another Board  to work with to  try to                                                            
resolve  such things  as user conflicts  and the  regulation  of the                                                            
number of guides and transporters operating in a certain area.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Regelin  noted  that  while  federal  agencies   are  currently                                                            
regulating and limiting  hunting activity on federal land, the State                                                            
is currently unable to  do so. The establishment of this Board would                                                            
further coordinate activities on State land.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  referenced  the section  in  the bill  that  could                                                            
essentially provide  military personnel living outside  the State, a                                                            
preference  in  that their  military  time  would be  recognized  as                                                            
qualifying  time for the  guide hunting  experience requirement.  He                                                            
asked whether those who  are familiar with an area could be provided                                                            
some sort of preference.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Regelin responded that  while he is not thoroughly knowledgeable                                                            
with  all the  intricacies of  the bill,  he understood  that  while                                                            
guides must  be familiar with an area  and could register  for up to                                                            
three permits, no local user preference is provided.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb  stated that  during discussions  with  Ron Summerville,  a                                                            
member  of the Board  of Game,  it was  suggested that  a course  be                                                            
developed through  which local knowledge could be  shared within the                                                            
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  questioned   how  this  would  benefit  the  local                                                            
individuals, as they are already familiar with local resources.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde noted  that in existing  statute,  there is  language                                                            
that would encourage  locals to become assistant guides.  This would                                                            
provide a step toward becoming a registered guide.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde expressed  being aware that, on occasion, transporters                                                            
exceed the definition of  being a transporter and conduct guide type                                                            
work. Therefore,  he noted that conflict  might arise due  to having                                                            
both guides and transporters on the Board.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb agreed that the  transporter issue is of concern. This bill                                                            
would  attempt   to  further  define   the  line  between   being  a                                                            
transporter and a guide/outfitter.  The guide/outfitter reference is                                                            
made  repeatedly in  the bill  to  clarify that  in order  to be  an                                                            
outfitter, a person must be a licensed guide.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked for  further discussion in this regard as this                                                            
is an important issue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Regelin  commented that this bill  would authorize the  Board to                                                            
address issues  such as the regulation of transporters.  The Board's                                                            
broad membership  representation  would enable  it to appropriately                                                             
further the issue.  This is a sensitive issue that  would take small                                                            
steps over a series of year to address.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Regelin  also  noted that  the Board  of Game  has no  authority                                                            
regarding conflicts  that could arise  when transporters  take large                                                            
numbers of hunters to the  same area. It is also important that this                                                            
Board  be re-authorized,  as this  industry "desperately"  needs  an                                                            
effective  mechanism with  which to  discipline guides  who are  not                                                            
following the law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde agreed that  there is a need for an oversight body. He                                                            
asked  whether  current  State  statute   clearly  defines  of  what                                                            
constitutes an outfitter, guide, or transporter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb stated that definitions are included in Section 32. Sec.                                                               
08.54.790. Definitions. beginning on page 20 and continuing through                                                             
page 22 of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked whether this legislation would affect air taxi                                                              
operators who provide transportation throughout the State.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Webb clarified that this legislation would not affect air taxi                                                              
service operators.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken announced that the bill would be HELD in Committee.                                                             

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